Nicks Sammio Build - take 2

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident

... now I need to think about hinges. Damn you sneaky Sammios without doors!...

And so it was that a bond was formed between the G46 & Cordite builders...



I am using Classic Mini external door handles on my Cordite:



And a very basic door latch that AndyP57 picked up for me:



Looking into the rules about door latches I stumbled across this MOT site...
www.motuk.co.uk
Within the information section on door handles I found the following:

A lack of door handles because of original design characteristics or specialist modification is not a Reason for Rejection provided the door can be latched securely in the closed position.

So no problems there.

Next we have details of the door test itself:

Doors - Open and close the driver’s and passenger’s doors.
Check that:
a. each door latches securely in the closed position
b. the driver’s and front passenger doors can be opened from both inside and outside the vehicle

Check door hinges, catches and pillars for presence, security and condition.

I guess it is OK to stand outside the car & operate the door latch inside the car.
After all there is no roof and in an emergency you can simply climb in & out without using the doors.

Hope that helps & good luck with your build, Paul.

[Mister Towed]

I was once given a Citroen Dyane as a courtesy car (from a garage I never used again). I drove it home, then tried to get out. It had no internal door handles. You had to open the hinged side window and lean out to open the door. Magnifique!

[WorldClassAccident]

Paul-L - I was looking at the very same Mini hinges earlier! I still want to look at the possibility of hidden internal hinges before I decide though. Lots of head scratching and Googling to come.

That latch is almost exactly what I was planning to use. I would have a piece of wire secured to the front of the door and then threaded through the loop. The wire would be accessible through the door pocket. Pull the wire and the latch is released.

[chap68]

hi there where did you get these door latches ive been trying to find them? i gave gary at sammio the idea for mini mk1 door hinges i bought and supplied them to him on the first one at stonleigh which im building up!! thanks.

[Nike55]

Originally Posted by Mister Towed

I was once given a Citroen Dyane as a courtesy car (from a garage I never used again). I drove it home, then tried to get out. It had no internal door handles. You had to open the hinged side window and lean out to open the door. Magnifique!

- Simplifique!

[Nike55]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I am using Classic Mini external door handles on my Cordite:

Do you know if these were the same hinges used on the Cordite demo vehicle at Stonleigh?

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Nike55

- Simplifique!

But somewhat oblique.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by chap68

hi there where did you get these door latches ive been trying to find them?

AndyP57 picked them up at a Kit Car Show, so he might have the contact details.

Originally Posted by Nike55

Do you know if these were the same hinges used on the Cordite demo vehicle at Stonleigh?

Yes they were, although I didn't know this at the time.
Earlier posts mentioned Jag hinges, but Gary did confirm he used these mini ones.

Hope that helps, Paul.

[WorldClassAccident]

The plan for today is to remount the frame on the body so that the rear is higher and the front is lower. This (hopefully) will allow the door sills on the shell to sit on the flat of the angle iron rather than floating above it. There may be some angle grinder action.

I am also working on a hidden hinge solution for the doors. I have got as far as the first scale model.

The red represents the body shell with the hole for the door.



The door fits into the hole


There is a carefully shaped hinge with the pivot point forward of the door and the hinge hidden within the shell.


This allows the door to pivot outwards and forwards to quite a wide angle without hitting the bodywork.



Now I just need to work out how to make it out of something stronger than cardboard. The current plan is to have a single hinge as the doors are quite light and it makes alignment a whole lot easier. It does mean they need to be a bit stronger though.

Any recommendations for the material?

Current favourite is 18mm Ply glassed over with metal bushings at the hinge. This is for no reason other than I have some 18mm ply and a jigsaw to cut it to shape.

[lancelot link]

Nick,
On a Sammio 550 project , I used the Scimitar hinges as a hidden hinge...

I only used one per side but with the lightweight door it worked ok...as the G46 door is a lengthened 550 door , it should work out...

If you no longer have your hinges ...I have a pair down here....

Because it is a ''mono-hinge'' arrangement , the pins will need replacing most likely as you can't have any pin movement...

Your doors need to open outside of the body...so any hinge you make needs to throw the door out ( most hinges put the door into the front inner wing area of a car on opening....The Scimitar doesn't , it throws out.

If you are making your own , then it needs to be a question mark type shape to get the throw and the only way it will pivot correctly is if you get the pivot point as close to the corner of the A pillar as possible...the outside , back edge of it ...the hinge wants to be on the outside really , so you have to get as close to the outside with the pivot as you can.....does that make sense..?

[WorldClassAccident]

My hinges were completely rusted out so definitely interested in yours.

I have been playing with the shape of the hinges in cardboard to try and get the correct 'throw' but if the Scimi ones do it then that saves me a head ache. I guess replacing the pins isn't too big an issue.

Can you check that they will fit and if so I might be able to pick them up next week at some point.

A general question about fixing stuff to the shell. How is best to do it?

I am trying to work out how to fit a hinge to the side of the boot. I have a hinge, I have the body shell and I have to boot panel.

I could just stick a screw through the hinge and fibre glass as if fixing the hinge to a wooden door frame but that looks a bit flexy.

I could glass a strip of metal to the inside of the shell and the boot panel to provide a greater support area and then bolt through the fibre glass and the metal panel but that would leave a bolt head exposed on the outside.

Any other ideas?

[Charman.tech]

We have spent so much time trying to resolve a concealed hinge that we have decided to bond the doors shut and jump over the top using a grab handle and a D step on the door cill recessed into the bodywork. Perhaps you RAF chappies could help with that detail???????

In honesty getting a concealed door hinge to work would, we had hoped be part of the ongoing development work on the G46, alss that development work never took place and the development of making that work is just to big a job on a one off build saying that I like WCA's idea, good luck.

Also I should also say that surface mounted hinges do not work as a pair just act against each other on the curved face on the door.

We have started working on the car again with more body work development and will post some photos later in the week.

[WorldClassAccident]

The plan for today is to remount the frame on the body so that the rear is higher and the front is lower. This (hopefully) will allow the door sills on the shell to sit on the flat of the angle iron rather than floating above it. There may be some angle grinder action.

I love it when a plan comes together!

Front bracket lowered and re-enforced. Sharp corner 'softened' with the angle grinder.


Sills no parallel with the chassis


Novel interpretation of square on this bit of frame - must have been late when welding


But nothing you can't over come with a persuading stick and a few bits of packing


Next task is to create the rear boot. The current plan is for a ply wood floor tacked to the plastic base with more ply up the sides of the wheel arches and then a piece of ply bonded to the top of the shell.

This should result in a wood lined boot space hiding the glass fibre and any wiring. The side panels will be removable for access to the rear wiring loom. This should leave room for a front boot behind the seats and under the humps where the back seats used to be.

The vague blue line shows the approximate divider between the front and rear boots.

[lancelot link]

WCA ...The trouble with screwing into fibreglass to mount anything under stress is that the screw will move and flex and open up the hole.....its not too bad for light application but a hinge or bootklid will need bolting really...bonding in steel strips and drilling through or drilling and tapping is quite a nice way to do it...you can use strips of ply for bracing and creating inner mounting areas etc...if bolting through fibreglass or ply , we always recommend using nice wide 'penny' style washers where possible...if its something thats unlikely to need removing , a little blob of sikkoflex can't do any harm either...

I'll put the hinges to one side for you....My laser man has the pattern to cut some door plates I had made that will brace your door shut and have the square cut out for the Scimitar hinge as well....give me a few days and I will try and sort a set for you ....it will save you a few hours....

[WorldClassAccident]

Cheers Gary, I am learning a lot at the moment and one of the best things I have learnt is to take help when offered!

I am unlikely to make it down to you before next weekend to pick anything up so no need to rush.

Penny washers on every nut or bolt that touches the fibreglass - Tick
Look to the left corner near the black battery cable. Bracing plates at the front of the frame foir even more spreading of the load. And the bolt on the inside of the footwell also has a penny washer but you can't really see it.

[WorldClassAccident]

Okay! Which one of you has hidden the pulley wheel for my handbrake?

It has been sat on the corner of the work bench since I removed the body. I have just gone down to the garage to fit it and the pulley wheel has gone missing.

[Mister Towed]

Have you checked your other trousers?

[WorldClassAccident]

Yes, and behind the garage fridge and sauna

[WorldClassAccident]

I gave up trying to find the pulley wheel for the handbrake and made do with a bolt and a stack of penny washers. I go to the garage today to clear the empties up from the weekend ready to do the bottle bank trip and what do I find?

The pulley wheel. Sitting looking all innocent on the edge of the work bench EXACTLY where I put it when I took it off and EXACTLY where I looked for it when it went missing!

Now, do I go back under the car and replace the bolt and washer solution or not?

[garyh]

Would an MOT man have a go... at you, and fail it?